What glory did Jesus have before the world was?
The Objection Lab · Objection VI of X
What glory did Jesus have before the world was?
Stated first the way its strongest advocate states it. Then your turn.
“In John 17:5 Jesus speaks of the glory He had with the Father before the world was, so the Son existed as a distinct person before creation.”8 verses answer it
I · The steelman
Their case, at full strength
“In John 17:5 Jesus speaks of the glory He had with the Father before the world was, so the Son existed as a distinct person before creation.”
“And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was” (John 17:5). Jesus does not say the glory was planned for Him. He says He had it, and had it with the Father (παρὰ σοί (para soi) (para soi)), before creation. A few verses later He grounds it in love: “thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world” (John 17:24). Love requires a lover and a beloved.
The Word was “with God” in the beginning, and all things were made by Him (John 1:1–3). The only begotten Son is “in the bosom of the Father” (John 1:18). All things were created by Him and for Him (Col 1:16), and God made the worlds by His Son (Heb 1:2). Being in the form of God, the Son “made himself of no reputation” (Phil 2:6–7), a choice made before He was a man. This is an eternal Son, personally distinct from the Father, who took flesh.
II · Drill it
Answer it. Ninety seconds.
Write what you would say if you heard this tonight. The clock starts with your first word; the ring is only a guide.
0 words
Read further
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- Isaiah 9:6 and the Child Who Is Mighty God
Isaiah 9:6 gives a newborn child the title El Gibbor, “Mighty God,” the same title Isaiah uses for Yahweh one chapter later, and calls him “Everlasting Father.” This essay reads the Hebrew carefully, sets the Trinitarian and Oneness readings side by side, and follows the verse into the New Testament, where God was manifest in the flesh.
- Oneness Theology: A Working Compendium
A short but complete map of Oneness theology: the one God of Israel, manifested in flesh as Jesus Christ. It works through the Hebrew and Greek of the key Old and New Testament texts, the typology of the angel, the tabernacle and the priesthood, and the apostolic practice of baptism in Jesus’ name. Each contested text is set beside the strongest Trinitarian reading before it is answered.